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	<title>Comments on: Where are all the women? (Revisited)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited</link>
	<description>KBlog by Kimberly Blessing</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:07:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Null is Love &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Where are all the women?</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-14614</link>
		<dc:creator>Null is Love &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Where are all the women?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-14614</guid>
		<description>[...] A few months ago, I followed with interest a thread started by Jascon Kottke about the poor ratio of female to male speakers at web conferences. Later posts on this thread are here, here, here, here and here. (There were many others&#8230;) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A few months ago, I followed with interest a thread started by Jascon Kottke about the poor ratio of female to male speakers at web conferences. Later posts on this thread are here, here, here, here and here. (There were many others&#8230;) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon &#187; Diversity and the Web2Open</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-11122</link>
		<dc:creator>::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon &#187; Diversity and the Web2Open</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-11122</guid>
		<description>[...] The reason that I&#8217;m pushing on this at the moment is because I want to highlight that, in light of the myriad of conversations about diversity that are recurring, we are actually trying a little experiment for the Web2Open&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The reason that I&#8217;m pushing on this at the moment is because I want to highlight that, in light of the myriad of conversations about diversity that are recurring, we are actually trying a little experiment for the Web2Open&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carsonified! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Diversity - The real issues and what we&#8217;re doing about it</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9869</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsonified! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Diversity - The real issues and what we&#8217;re doing about it</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9869</guid>
		<description>[...] (This is a response to the following posts: Jason Kottke, Anil Dash, Eric Meyer, Tantek Celik, Dori Smith, Shelley Powers, Kim Blessing and Virginia DeBolt) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (This is a response to the following posts: Jason Kottke, Anil Dash, Eric Meyer, Tantek Celik, Dori Smith, Shelley Powers, Kim Blessing and Virginia DeBolt) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9867</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9867</guid>
		<description>@Kevin: I wasn&#039;t referring to myself for speaking opportunities -- I actually have enough on my hands right now! But I know of others that use the same tactics that I use and don&#039;t yield quite the same results... and most of those folks are self-employed, so they don&#039;t have the ability to ask The Man for help. (PayPal isn&#039;t The Man as much as AOL was. ;))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin: I wasn&#8217;t referring to myself for speaking opportunities &#8212; I actually have enough on my hands right now! But I know of others that use the same tactics that I use and don&#8217;t yield quite the same results&#8230; and most of those folks are self-employed, so they don&#8217;t have the ability to ask The Man for help. (PayPal isn&#8217;t The Man as much as AOL was. ;))</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberly</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9866</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9866</guid>
		<description>@Eric Meyer:

I agree that it&#039;s important to have the best speakers, but the best speakers aren&#039;t all men. Now that you&#039;ve &lt;a href=&quot;http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/02/24/diverse-reactions/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;clarified your point&lt;/a&gt; to mean &quot;gender blind&quot;, I&#039;m less shocked, but I guess part of me still can&#039;t understand the results of the gender mix at your conferences. 

There are many well-qualified, well-spoken female developers and designers out there. Their barriers to entry may be that they don&#039;t publish enough, or participate enough in the fora that attract the A-listers, and thus they&#039;re not known. 

They also may not yet have the confidence to put themselves out there and write proposals or suggest themselves for things like writing, editing, or speaking. I have Tantek to thank for first pulling me up on stage, after all. 

I wasn&#039;t suggesting discrimination at the end of my post, I was suggesting an all or mostly female environment where women could more safely express themselves, and experiment with speaking on stage about their work and about standards. Such an environment (a conference, camp, G2G, etc.) may empower those that are teetering on the edge of participating of co-ed events, and get them to jump in. 

I can&#039;t get you in to Bryn Mawr to understand this effect, but I could get you into the &lt;a href=&quot;http://gracehopper.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing&lt;/a&gt; conference. I can tell you the stories of women who&#039;ve attended that one, mostly-female conference, and how it changed their lives. (I know because I&#039;m one of them.) 

So gender-blind, good. Empowerment, good. A-list that&#039;s still predominantly male, bad. And if you&#039;re only looking at A-listers then you&#039;ll get mostly men. Bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eric Meyer:</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s important to have the best speakers, but the best speakers aren&#8217;t all men. Now that you&#8217;ve <a href="http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/02/24/diverse-reactions/" rel="nofollow">clarified your point</a> to mean &#8220;gender blind&#8221;, I&#8217;m less shocked, but I guess part of me still can&#8217;t understand the results of the gender mix at your conferences. </p>
<p>There are many well-qualified, well-spoken female developers and designers out there. Their barriers to entry may be that they don&#8217;t publish enough, or participate enough in the fora that attract the A-listers, and thus they&#8217;re not known. </p>
<p>They also may not yet have the confidence to put themselves out there and write proposals or suggest themselves for things like writing, editing, or speaking. I have Tantek to thank for first pulling me up on stage, after all. </p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t suggesting discrimination at the end of my post, I was suggesting an all or mostly female environment where women could more safely express themselves, and experiment with speaking on stage about their work and about standards. Such an environment (a conference, camp, G2G, etc.) may empower those that are teetering on the edge of participating of co-ed events, and get them to jump in. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t get you in to Bryn Mawr to understand this effect, but I could get you into the <a href="http://gracehopper.org/" rel="nofollow">Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing</a> conference. I can tell you the stories of women who&#8217;ve attended that one, mostly-female conference, and how it changed their lives. (I know because I&#8217;m one of them.) </p>
<p>So gender-blind, good. Empowerment, good. A-list that&#8217;s still predominantly male, bad. And if you&#8217;re only looking at A-listers then you&#8217;ll get mostly men. Bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9858</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9858</guid>
		<description>I think the way to get found is to start proposing and leading discussions at unconferences like Mashup Camp, BaseCamp, etc.  Join conversations (just like you&#039;re doing with this one), and I think Eric makes a good point - publish.   I&#039;m in the same position you are: not enough time, too many good intentions and lots of responsibilities.   You need someone at work who can help do the grunt work of conference stuff - get PayPal to sponsor conferences, and then you&#039;ll have more speaking opportunities than you can shake a stick at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the way to get found is to start proposing and leading discussions at unconferences like Mashup Camp, BaseCamp, etc.  Join conversations (just like you&#8217;re doing with this one), and I think Eric makes a good point &#8211; publish.   I&#8217;m in the same position you are: not enough time, too many good intentions and lots of responsibilities.   You need someone at work who can help do the grunt work of conference stuff &#8211; get PayPal to sponsor conferences, and then you&#8217;ll have more speaking opportunities than you can shake a stick at.</p>
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		<title>By: john allsopp</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9857</link>
		<dc:creator>john allsopp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9857</guid>
		<description>Amen Steff!

john</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen Steff!</p>
<p>john</p>
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		<title>By: Just Shelley &#187; Progress</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9856</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Shelley &#187; Progress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9856</guid>
		<description>[...] Regarding the dialog about women and conferences, I wanted to thank folks for commenting here on my posts and elsewhere. I appreciate the effort makes when she goes to conferences to seek out organizers to help diversify their events. I especially want to point out Dave Shea&#039;s post on his own conference organizing efforts. Specifically (and I hope he doesn&#039;t mind me taking such a large quote): [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Regarding the dialog about women and conferences, I wanted to thank folks for commenting here on my posts and elsewhere. I appreciate the effort makes when she goes to conferences to seek out organizers to help diversify their events. I especially want to point out Dave Shea&#39;s post on his own conference organizing efforts. Specifically (and I hope he doesn&#39;t mind me taking such a large quote): [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Elisa Camahort</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9842</link>
		<dc:creator>Elisa Camahort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9842</guid>
		<description>Great post. You might also want to check out Snappy the Clam&#039;s post on this same brouhaha:
http://www.snappytheclam.com/archives/000893.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. You might also want to check out Snappy the Clam&#8217;s post on this same brouhaha:<br />
<a href="http://www.snappytheclam.com/archives/000893.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.snappytheclam.com/archives/000893.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: steph</title>
		<link>http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited#comment-9839</link>
		<dc:creator>steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kimberlyblessing.com/archive/2007/02/24/where-are-all-the-women-revisited/#comment-9839</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t seem to comment on Tantek&#039;s post, so here&#039;s a kind of an extended comment on the matter.

Quoting Kimmie&#039;s analysis: &quot;Tantek also asked why we accept having this conversation of diversity with specific criteria, like gender.&quot;

The thing is, whatever race you are, whatever culture you come from, whatever country you were born and grew up in - you have men, and you have women. It&#039;s the first primary division even before you think about other physical factors. That gender bias becomes the most prominent issue should not come as a surprise.

All through out history, there have been many examples where women are never given the same credit as men for having achieved the same thing. Little wonder it still happens today - the unconscious ideas that we have buried in our cultures still show the female of the species to be, on the whole, the &quot;lesser&quot; - the less intelligent, the less capable. To be blatant: the more sexually attractive you are, the less smart you must be :) It follows on that if women remain women (as in we don&#039;t imitate men and make ourselves sexless), we mustn&#039;t quite ever be on the same footing as men, therefore achieving the same kind of recognition or acknowledgment.

The issue is greater than whether there are enough women at tech conferences or not, whether there are enough women in tech or not.

I mean, we were once thought to be less intelligent because it was thought we had less teeth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t seem to comment on Tantek&#8217;s post, so here&#8217;s a kind of an extended comment on the matter.</p>
<p>Quoting Kimmie&#8217;s analysis: &#8220;Tantek also asked why we accept having this conversation of diversity with specific criteria, like gender.&#8221;</p>
<p>The thing is, whatever race you are, whatever culture you come from, whatever country you were born and grew up in &#8211; you have men, and you have women. It&#8217;s the first primary division even before you think about other physical factors. That gender bias becomes the most prominent issue should not come as a surprise.</p>
<p>All through out history, there have been many examples where women are never given the same credit as men for having achieved the same thing. Little wonder it still happens today &#8211; the unconscious ideas that we have buried in our cultures still show the female of the species to be, on the whole, the &#8220;lesser&#8221; &#8211; the less intelligent, the less capable. To be blatant: the more sexually attractive you are, the less smart you must be :) It follows on that if women remain women (as in we don&#8217;t imitate men and make ourselves sexless), we mustn&#8217;t quite ever be on the same footing as men, therefore achieving the same kind of recognition or acknowledgment.</p>
<p>The issue is greater than whether there are enough women at tech conferences or not, whether there are enough women in tech or not.</p>
<p>I mean, we were once thought to be less intelligent because it was thought we had less teeth.</p>
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